My website traffic has tripled in one year. Barring personal or worldwide Armageddon, this month alone, 10,000 Unique Visitors will view deCOMPOSE, all the while inching my way toward a quarter million visitors since Oct. 2005. Humbling, scary, and a bit mystifying.
Apparently, this experiment is working.
But what is working? Some may attribute this growth to tenure, “You’ve just stuck with it.” Others will attribute it to having a great agent or having a book out. Still others will suggest a bump from social networking. And I admit, all those things are probably in the mix.
However, I’d like to think I’m mining a “new demographic.” Okay, maybe they’re not new. They’ve just gone unrecognized for so long.
“Faith” and “Composition” are two of my favorite subjects to blog about, especially when they’re conjoined. Which is why I ramble on about Christian fiction and related subject matter. It’s lost me some readers. But I wonder if it hasn’t gained me a few as well. As much as some dislike my critique of the industry, there appears to be legitimate interest in wrestling with issues that relate to Christian fiction. This is the “new demographic” I’m referring to.
There seems to be a lot more readers who like stories with “faith” elements than CBA (Christian Booksellers Association) publishers are currently reaching.
Many Christian readers just don’t seem to like most Christian fiction — at least, what is currently being published as “Christian fiction.” I talk to them all the time. This doesn’t mean they don’t like faith-driven stories and desire a Christian worldview therein, they just don’t like the type of faith that drives most Christian fiction stories. Or the types of stories marketed as “faith-driven.” Or the quality of writing, the limitation of subject matter, the genre tilt, the… whatever. Either way, the CBA seems to target a small demographic of Christian readers.
Perhaps this is simply a lesson about finding your audience. I don’t know. But not a few of those readers appear to frequent this site. I’m just wondering when Christian publishers will recognize this new demographic?
The people I come across that are Christians that don’t read CF seem to be one of these:
1) they don’t read any fiction at all
2) they’ve read a few books that are considered CF and they were turned off by the writing/preachiness of the book and now refuse to read any more (I have noticed they tend to have read only the Left Behind Books) because they feel the work to be inferior or proselytizing
3) they don’t like seeing any sort of Christian faith in a fiction book and feel that it doesn’t belong there.
This is a great breakdown, Deborah. I definitely encounter more 1’s and 2’s than 3’s. Have you blogged about this elsewhere? It seems like a great outline for discussion.
I’ve had several discussions on twitter with other book bloggers about this topic and these seem to be main reasons that keep cropping up. Many book bloggers don’t accept Christian fiction/inspirational fiction to review on their blog and 2 & 3 are the main reasons why. #1 is what i usually encounter with actual people I meet face to face.
You need a 4.) people who are very active readers and don’t like the quality of work which is widely published in the genre.
Much as I’d like to offer all of you with a category to hide behind (“aww, they don’t read”; “they don’t try anything new and different”; “they’re ashamed of the gospel”) I’m afraid that you are willfully ignoring what many of us seem to be shouting loudly and clearly.
THE VAST MAJORITY OF CHRISTIAN FICTION TITLES ARE STYLISTICALLY, CREATIVELY AND LINGUISTICALLY SUBPAR.
Part of the reason for this is the low expectations placed on the genre by its largest demographic–women reading escapist romance.
Yet more of the reason is because after the turn of this century publishing started hemorrhaging money. Then the word came down that the only genre with bank was what they then called Inspirational. Agents and publishers went actively beating the bushes for anyone who could get them content for this market. Anne Rice suddenly remembered that she was a Christian. As did a lot of the hacks who had tried to make it for years turning out Silence Of The Lambs knockoffs and Harlequin Book Of The Week bodice ripper fluff.
CBA fiction is dominated by poorly written junk.
And yes, I read it. I read, minimum, 120 books a year. Of that at least 15% is CBA.
I’ll second Katherine here.
I read tons. I read tons of Christian fiction, but very little of that is CBA fiction. Between Marcher Lord Press, the independents, classsics and ABA books written by talented Christians, I have almost zero room for CBA books, except when I’m uniquely directed there (Tosca Lee, T.L. Hines, Mike) and that has everything to do with focus:
Fiction is not in the CBA’s core, and speculative is not anywhere close to their wheelhouse even within the narrow confines of CBA fiction!
This isn’t a criticism. I don’t go to church to see a good movie, and I don’t go to a Christian living, gift and theology store for fiction! The fact that they have a little fiction rack (or three aisles, even) is nice, for impulse buys, but the truth is that the least travelled aisle in a CBA supplied store is fiction, and the least supported genre in CBA fiction is speculative. And please don’t tell me I don’t frequent Christian book stores: I am there almost once a week, walking out with at least one book. It just rarely happens to be fiction!
Again, this isn’t a knock at all.
But the CBA suddenly deciding to expand in the unstable book market to an audience it has never traditionally served is a little like networking giant Cisco deciding to get into the pocket video recording business. It just isn’t a great fit.
Example #1 – Even though the Church body plays a critical, positive and orthodox role throughout E.E. Knight’s post-apocalyptic military sci-fi Vampire Earth series, there’s no way it would ever “fit” on the shelves at Family Christian.
Example #2 – The best spiritual warfare fantasy (a la Peretti) is The Eternal Warriors series…published by Pocket Books (ABA).
Example #3 – Even within the CBA, Demon: A Memoir was originally published, as a risk, by NavPress – not exactly a fiction powerhouse within CBA circles. Mike is published by a charismatic house – charismatic publishers typically warrant a subsection within the CBA (much like Catholic publishers) even with the core product of non-fiction.
Example #4 – Ted Dekker’s success is in his cross-over appeal. Good for the CBA to recognize and leverage that to Wal-mart, drug stores, and the like, but it is obvious on the face of things that Dekker benefitted from a risk-taking period in the industry that paid off for him. I seriously doubt if he were a new writer in today’s climate that he would be picked up by the CBA.
Example #5 – Eric Wilson. The CBA made a good-faith effort, went as all-in as a timid industry might, and promoted a straight-up speculative fiction, and it couldn’t find the audience in its stores: because that audience doesn’t come to their stores for fiction (heck, I didn’t see Wilson’s stuff outside of the movie tie-ins at CBA stores, because it rarely occurs to me to go to the fiction section unless I’m in a serious bonnets, war romances or contempory chick lit mood.)
Is this sounding like a rant? I hope not. I’m glad a CBA exists for its purposes, and I’m glad that it has contributed to the development of artists like Tosca, Dekker, Mike and others.
But as a system-wide business decision, the CBA would have to make radical changes in order to make the sort of splash necessary to draw in this “new” audience it hasn’t wanted to reach for the past 50 years.
I disagree with this.
I read some pretty poorly written general market books as well, and I read about as many books as you do a year. (Deborah reads 500 a year so she has a better grasp on it)
I think there are LESS Christian fiction books published a year so when you look at the ratio of really great books to just the usual run of the mill stuff it evens out pretty well. The only thing I’ll give you is that Christian fiction steers clear of “literary” fiction. So you won’t find much of that but for general fiction or genre fiction I don’t think it’s that Christian fiction is so much worse…that’s just not true anymore.
A) It’s fewer. Fewer Christian fiction books published a year.
B) I disagree. When you’re talking straight up, house-to-house comparisions (not Major CBA House versus boutique ABA house) the ratio of well-crafted/passable to Quick And Dirty is nowhere near the same. As a former marketer in the CBA I can assure you that IS INTENTIONAL.
A major CBA house–or, now, imprint–will publish at best half the list of an equivalent ABA house. And their retail floor space is much smaller. So to make their money they’ve got to publish books that will turn quickly. With less space they’ve got to refill the space more often. What turns quickly in both markets is pretty much the same: branded series with tight production pipelines. In the CBA it’s Karen “I write a book in 10 days” Kingsbury. In the ABA it’s Robyn Carr or some entry-level Susie “I write vampire sex stories” Q. Public.
Neither of these are quality fiction. But in the CBA it’s the bulk of what they can get into the stores. So that’s the bulk of what they make.
Yes, both put out lots of junk. But the CBA’s junk-to-jewel ratio is much smaller.
What would be considered CBA ‘jewels?’ I mean, the really high quality stuff, the stuff that could contend on equal footing in any market because of the quality of the work, not the place where it’s marketed. (This is at least partially rhetorical.)
I know this much: there’s enough quality in the regular marketplace right now that I’m only reading what I consider jewels, and I don’t have time to get to it all; The Wise Man’s Fear, Tiassa, Dark Jenny. I’ll know that ‘Christian fiction’ has arrived when I decide I have to forgo something else in order to make space for it. It’s not there for me yet.
I agree 100% Johne. And it’s why I didn’t even seek a CBA publisher and won’t for my work. I wanted someone just as interested in general market appeal and who wants work that competes on that level. It may seem unfair to some that a “that level” distinguishment exists which assumes Christian fiction as a category is lesser quality, but it’s my experience that all too much of it doesn’t reach the heights of much mainstream literature and that’s sad. Christian music had this issue in the 80s, when it was perpetually 3-5 years behind mainstream and had a hard time competing. The Christian market has a ways to go to catch up, and, until it does, it will be missing out on a significant portion of the potential readers it could and arguably should be reaching.
You have a point, Amy. I just hope that Christian publishers start publishing more literary fiction in the future.
Katherine, I don’t read nearly as many books as you and probably only a half dozen CBA titles a year. With that, a couple of questions: 1.) Do you think there really is a disporportionate amount of poorly written books from CBA to ABA? 2.) Would better written Christian fiction change your opinion about the industry as a whole? Thanks for your comments.
Here’s the thing; better written Christian fiction wouldn’t need to be marketed as CBA. I would think that would be the overall goal anyway, to craft fiction so compelling that everybody would want to read it (in the way that everyone had to read Peretti’s angel warfare novels or Pullman’s His Dark Materials novels). You know you’ve really arrived as an author when people who aren’t already in agreement with your philosophy find your fiction compelling and irresistible.
Johne, that’s not always a measuring stick. Sometimes premise pushes people to read and the books still aren’t crafted well. Think Shadowmancer, Left Behind, The Shack.
Becky
For every reader attracted by a clever or bold premise, how many are turned away by clumsy or didactic execution?
I’d think that would be the lowest setting for the bar. I haven’t read any of those works, and I’m ostensibly the audience the authors had in mind when writing the books.
We shouldn’t rest on premise. As authors, we should push the bar of quality ever higher and not depend on premise alone to draw people in.
Johne, I’m not saying it’s OK to neglect writing craft. But I’m suggesting readers come to books that aren’t all that well written because of the story. And they come in droves. (BTW, if you go back to Peretti’s angel books as you called the — and I assume you mean the Darkness books — you’ll see they aren’t all that well written either). Would they have even more readers if they were written well? I think so. I think they might even have a chance to be keepers — ones that stay on book store bookshelves.
And to further the point, I’ve never read His Dark Materials. In other words, there are other factors beside good writing that make a novel “successful” or not, with big or little audiences.
Becky
Heh. And I’m saying that if the story is already good enough to attract readers (regardless of the quality), better writing will attract /more/ readers.
Sadly, for me, the stories being marketed by CBA haven’t been good enough to break into my reading rotation in a long time, and I’m ostensibly a target audience.
Part of the reality here, Johne, is that Christian books have been pushy and preachy long enough that it’s become a stereotype expected with anything labelled as such and people won’t, therefore, give it a chance if it bears that stamp. Which is why authors (Mike has done this and so have I) debate whether they want that association on their work. It is limiting. And until that reputation is reversed by books put out by Christian authors which are NOT that way and become popular and widely read and change the reputation, it will continue to be so.
I have to agree with Katherine. My first experience with CBA fiction was disappointing. For a couple of years, I gave up on CBA fiction altogether. I find that if I look really hard, I can find an exceptional Christian novel every now and again, but they are too few and far between. And I do think that part of the problem is that publishers perceive the largest part of their market as white women ages 30-50 who live for escapist Christianized romance. If they would just open their eyes to the larger market waiting to be reached…
“Many Christian readers just don’t seem to like most Christian fiction”
Growing up – in a pretty orthodox Christian home, mind you, Baptist church, dad for a deacon – I didn’t even know what “Christian Fiction” was past The Chronicles of Narnia. I just read obsessively. When my dad – the conservative Baptist deacon – decided it was time for me to read some “good stuff”, he handed me Poe, James Fenimore Cooper, and Mark Twain, not Christian fiction.
He never told me “don’t read this”. Yeah, maybe a few paperbacks bought at garage sales mysteriously “disappeared”, but he preached discernment, not avoidance.
I discovered CBA fiction in college. Went through several phases of honestly trying to like it. Spent two years reviewing for Christian sites, reading exclusively CBA novels, even weathering terse emails from readers not happy with my reviews, accusing me of “hurting their ministry.”
When I finally decided to stop reading CBA fiction, I breathed a sigh of relief and thought, “Finally. I get to read good books again.” And there are a few CBA authors I consider to be good. But I did honestly give it the old college try, and sampled everything from “Bonnet Books” to Christian suspense, sci fi, fantasy, “gritty detective” novels and “edgy” Christian fiction. It just didn’t stack up to what I normally read, and worse – all the CBA authors hailed by CBA media machines as being SOOO good paled in comparison to secular authors (especially their prose) while some of the CBA’s finer craftsmen were just mumbled about sometimes, and that’s it.
I read a lot of Christian fiction as a preteen and teenager, because I was part of a conservative family and those were the “approved books”. They were fine, but I honestly can’t remember much about any of them.
Once I branched out and started reading the classics, I never turned back. It’s like I grew up, but the books didn’t.
I’m wondering, too, Mike. Truly am. I’ve blogged about this as a business practice, as a conundrum, etc. When are they going to stretch and grow? I think the number 2’s on Deborah’s list compose the majority of whiners. Those of us who see the expansion necessary to appeal to genuine Christian readers who aren’t satisfied with the same ol’, and limited genre applications, get ignored.
There are some amazing Christian writers in CBA. Truly gifted. What could some of them produce with a little more freedom?
I’ve been around Christian fiction since before there really was Christian fiction (and was around Christian music before CCM rock). I am, first and foremost, looking for a barn-burner story. Frank Peretti’s angel warfare novels gave me hope, but they were an anomaly. I’ve read other books since then, but have had to turn elsewhere for the kind of quality and the kind of genre that trips my trigger.
I have nothing against Christian fiction per se, but have little patience for writing that isn’t as good as what I can find elsewhere. My favorite authors have moved onto the larger stage where they compete out in the open market on the strength of their writing, not the strength of their ‘message.’
I’ve only read one bona-fide CBA fiction book (it was suspense-ish/horror), and the whole of it was really ehhhhhhh. It wasn’t too didactic, thankfully, but the writing was pretty meh.
Good point. You can go to B&N and find plenty of mediocre writing, but, when they have, say 30 new horror books on the shelf every month, your odds of finding something special is a lot greater than when you go to the CBA and they have, say 10 new “speculative” books on the shelf, half of which are YA, 2 are “women’s thrillers” and 2 are allegories.
So the one book that qualifies may or may not be horror, and it may or may not be any good (likely not good: the nature of fiction, CBA or ABA is that _most_ books will not appeal to an individual reader.)
In the above scenario, change horror to sci-fi, fantasy, paranormal or anything else, and you can see why, fairly quickly, why the numbers don’t add up to satisfy the consumption needs of the fan.
And don’t even get me started on comic books.
This is where really creative, competent people can stand out. Doug TenNapel is a case in point. His graphic novels are brilliant, funny, thought-provoking, and yet are written from a Christian worldview.
I doubt you’ll ever see then in CBA. This is a feature, not a bug.
If you’re not already reading his free webcomic “Ratfist,” you really should check it out: http://ratfist.com/title/
(And then go check out his entire library. “Creature Tech” may be the most brilliant creative work I’ve ever read, haunting and startling and achingly funny.)
TenNapel is exactly the sort of work I have in mind. I was first introduced to his work via the spectacular Sega Genesis video game Earthworm Jim. His subsequent comics, animations and games are tremendous. You can find him at the big heathen comic shops: Ghostopolis, Tommysaurus Rex, Earthboy Jacobus, all of it.
Heck, you can’t even find Archie at a CBA store – which tells me that it has less to do with ideology or quality, and more to do deal with the target market.
Gee, thanks, Johne. You’re worse than tvtropes.org. Clicking on your link to Ratfist led me to The Meek, and from there to Lackadaisy Cats. Just what I needed, *three* more webcomics to follow. 🙂
If I’ve helped even one more discover Doug TenNapel, my work here is done. ; )
Doug does it right. He tells amazingly cool stories from a Christian worldview, that’s not CBA, that doesn’t preach, that does inspire, which is as entertaining as anything. He’s exuberant, childlike, weird, and completely amazing. He’s the real deal.
Thanks for this link, Johne!
Heh. Thanks for that link.
Well said, xpaul. The lack of choice for speculative readers is a serious problem, whereas romance readers will be able to find what suits them fairly easily. Lots more — from historical to contemporary.
Becky
The romance CBA offers is perhaps the worst it has to offer for the most part. I used to read it. Heck, I write it/love stories. I rarely read the genre anymore. The formula is set in stone. Rare variations. Predictable from the first paragraph and characters with little depth. What makes it “worse” is there is no comparable alternative in the general market without erotica. The current trend has slipped into a mediocre safe offering.
I agree with Amy, though. Less books but some truly gifted writers in certain genres. Proportionately, the ABA has plenty of junk.
I’ve been reading anything and everything for most of my life, which means I’ve read a fair amount of Christian fiction. I’ve noticed over and over again how cheap and easy Christian fiction is. I noticed this as a child, but excused it because it was Christian. General market MG and YA can be just as cheap and easy, and I remember excusing these books for the same reason. But I also read them because they were cheap and easy. Not every book could be a C.S. Lewis or a Ray Bradbury, for example. When I picked up Tosca Lee, I realized right away she was in a different class. As far as I can tell, though, most CBA books don’t rise to the level of a Tosca Lee.
I’m too old to waste my time excusing mediocre books any longer. I’m very nearly gagging on the current CBA book I’m reading, but I’m not going to name it, for my own self-preservation as a writer. All areas of publishing are rife w/ mediocrity, but it seems the CBA has been content w/ encouraging it for a long time now.
If you haven’t read Summa Elvetica: A Casuistry of the Elvish Controvery, you ought to. Think Bradbury (Something Wicked…) + St. Augustine (Summa Theologica) + Lewis (Horse and His Boy) + Umberto Eco (Name of the Rose)…
The writing is outstanding. Likewise for Beale’s other books, such as the Eternal Warriors trilogy.
And a sequel is in the works right now. Of course (and unfortunately?) you won’t find it in a CBA store.
I wonder if I can get it on my Nook.
The world has left its stain on me to such an extent that, I can be made physically sick by the showcasing of certain sin (namely: Sexual sin). I read CBA because I know, for the most part, I don’t have to worry about running into that. About being made physically ill by something that should be helping me relax. The problem is, most CBA is terribly written. Or just mediocre. And then there’s the message. Must there always be an explicit message? Maybe just a good story that is fairly “safe” for Christian readers? Or at least one that doesn’t go out of its way to offend devout Christians (because you have to be wary of that when buying ABA. . .so many authors will come right out and say you’re an idiot if you’re a Christian)?
Dean Koontz’s work is the nearest I’ve found to what I think CBA should be. The Taking was the best book CBA never released. Watchers is another. I’m reading Hideaway right now and it seems likely to be yet another. I like to read Koontz when I’m tired of dealing with the hopeless, freudian, anti-Christian nonsense that seems to saturate most fiction today.
Tony, I so agree with you about Koontz. He is a great inspiration of what, I believe, faith-based stories could be.
I’ll second this motion. Have you read “What the Night Knows”, yet? Very good.
I completely agree.
I agree and am glad you bring this up. Most Christian fiction (and this can apply to most CCM as well) is too neat and clean to reflect real life. In real life we have messy. We have pain and questions and mysteries that the Bible doesn’t always clear up. We have loose ends. While elements of hope are beautiful in story and song, it has to be in a believable and identifiable context. I’d rather come alongside a protagonist grappling with deep internal angst because I can see myself there. I can’t see myself with many current CBA celebrity heroines.
I was JUST thinking about this demographic this morning, which I’m a member of. Recently I read the submission guidelines of a publisher of “inspired romance” and they discouraged any physical interaction between the leads unless they were married. Don’t get me wrong – I agree with the commenter above about not liking the graphic nature of “regular” novels. But how many Christians live their lives this way, with little physical contact before marriage? Only a minority of Christian denominations teach to wait until marriage for your first kiss, and only a minority of that minority actually do it. And that’s my problem with CBA books – there’s a sanitization of real Christianity that ends up feeling like hypocracy. Even books about “flawed”characters give off a vibe of a more strict view of Christian living than most Christians (even conservative ones like me) believe in.
Leann, you’re my kind of audience.
Mike, I tend to think readers not seeking traditional “sweet and safe” stories is not a new demographic. It’s an unrecognized one, for whatever reason.
Some publishers have expressed interest in expanding their product to draw in the 20- and 30-something readers, but I don’t see it really happening.
With the difficult economy, I heard an editor say last year at a conference, that they were not likely to publish anything apart from what their core readers were buying. In other words, they were going only with sure things.
This year, the buzz seems to be that editors are looking again, interested in expanding. But does that mean more authors writing the same old, same old, or will they dip into areas they haven’t tested much in the past?
But even if they do, how will readers find out they have?
Becky
Becky, I’d want to make clear the distinction between readers who want “traditional ‘sweet and safe'” and Christian readers who want faith-based stories without the “sweet and safe” trappings. That is the “new demographic” I’m referring to, one the CBA has not tapped.
I want to make that distinction, too, Mike. I wrote an awkward sentence, so my meaning wasn’t clear, but I said readers NOT wanting sweet and safe have been there all along, so they aren’t “new” but untapped.
Becky
Wow. So many interesting thoughts and perspectives here. I’ll pick one thread…the question of “quality craft.”
Mike, you asked Katherine: “Do you think there really is a disproportionate amount of poorly written books from CBA to ABA?”
No, there is an entirely proportionate amount of poorly written books …and that is the problem.
I think of it in terms of high school athletics. Who stands the better chance of fielding a high-quality team: The big school from the Chicago suburbs with multiple thousands of enrolled students…or my hometown in rural Central Illinois with 2,000 total population? (The town…not the school!)
ABA is a “big school”… They have a bigger talent pool to draw from, in sheer numbers. And a bigger audience in the stands cheering them on. And their players face more competition just to make the team. Are all the ABA authors high-quality? Nope. As others have pointed out, good and bad writing is produced by both “teams”… But ABA has a bigger team to begin with, thus numerically, higher numbers of talented players.
CBA is a small, rural school… Where I come from, if you have one…or maybe two…really good athletes on your team, you celebrate! (Because what are the odds of that happening?) Does the CBA have some good writers? Sure. As many as the “big school” ABA? No. That’s why the Big Schools don’t play in the same conference as the Little Schools.
You have to even the playing field, because…in sports…everyone intuitively understands that the bigger schools have *more* of everything.
The sheer numbers favor the ABA…butI think the “percentages of quality” are about the same in both. At least, that’s been my experience as a reader.
That’s a great way to look at it, Alan. The follow-up question I’d ask is whether the CBA has intenially or unintentionally limited itself to “small school” status.
My guess is, CBA has not “limited itself,” so much as it has “been limited.”
Malcolm Gladwell, in his excellent book “Outliers,” argues that notable achievement in any endeavor (as measured by sales, recognition of excellence, wins) owes far more to factors beyond our control than we typically like to admit.
Drawing the school athletic analogy out (maybe onto it’s last legs!):
Small school athletic departments may *wish* they had the talent, fan base, resources, and economic success of the larger schools, but they are limited by hard realities (not by “heart” or “desire”.)
I’m sure many CBA professionals wish they had the number of talented writers, the readership, and the diversity of genres the ABA enjoys, but there are inherent limitations to the system:
* Most adults are not particularly interested in a vibrant relationship with the risen Christ.
* Of those who are, most aren’t frequent readers.
* Of those who are readers, most prefer non-fiction.
* Of those who do read fiction, most are white, middle-class, women of child-bearing through empty-nester age, who are seeking a particular type of reading experience.
* With a few, well-known exceptions, the CBA has found it economically unprofitable to reach beyond that core demographic.
If the CBA could snap its fingers, and change those realities, it would.
If 95% of the U.S. population were born-again, committed believers, numerically the CBA would become a “bigger school”…and would look a lot more like the ABA in terms of number of talented players, diversity of genres, fan base, sales, etc.
My two cents. Thanks as always for hosting these thought-provoking discussions!
You two cents is more like a bar of solid gold. Spot on.
I agree. That was a great comment.
I don’t think it’s that CBA perceives its market to be these women as much as this just is the market. These are the people who are buying the books. They seem to like a lot of silly books in my opinion.
But there are some good books in the CBA, too.
I am frustrated that so many of the good books in the CBA fall short of greatness. I suspect that if they had more time in the editing stages the books might achieve greatness. I have heard some of the authors speak of sending off first drafts and not doing much editing after that and I think that’s a pity. Because they are settling for good enough, which is rarely good enough.
I wonder what some of those good books could do, sales-wise, if the authors took a few more months and wove in some deep themes or worked in character motivation to fix plot glitches, or spent a couple of weeks adding in some lovely prose into each chapter.
Maybe it wouldn’t matter. Books like Twilight do well even though they are not well written, and books like The Year the Swallows Came Early hardly make a blip even though they are beautifully written.
Still, it seems to me that we should all aim at writing really great books. And those books take time. But authors are pushed to twitter their time away and still produce two books a year. This is a problem in general market as well as CBA.
Here’s a question: we know of some good Christian writers (or good writers with a Christian worldview) who have taken their skills to the outside world to compete in the larger marketplace. Do you know of any non-Christian writers who have tried the reverse?
I know of several, but legalities prevent me from naming names. In two of those cases the writers ultimately professed faith in Christ, but paying a craftsperson a lot of money to lie about his/her worldview to sell books is not the first tactic in the missions arsenal I’d choose to deploy.
You’re saying you know of authors who you feel do not have an actual faith who write Christian fiction?
I’m saying I know authors who profess agnosticism privately but write CBA fiction for the contracts.
*big sigh*
Not that I’m surprised, but how is inherent agnosticism and deception going to have any genuine spiritual influence?
Talk about not exercising discernment.
Jesus wept.
I also know a writer who writes Christian stuff under a pen name so people won’t tie that with her erotic work.
Actually I don’t know if she’s been published in the CBA. I just know she writes both Christian and erotic stuff and she used different names.
I just think there are a lot of good Christian writers and a lot of bad Christian writers. Unfortunately, most Christian fiction writers use a particular style. The style itself is hard to deal with. Who cares about faith issues? Christian fiction also uses particular characters…who all seem alike. I read a lot of Christian fiction..books by PD James (Children of Men), John Grisham, John Irving, John Updike, Flannery O’Connor, and Stephen King for instance. I think the problem you speak of concerning Christian writers in general tend to occur only with Christian evangelical writers….where CBA-specifics and requirements drive the plot, the issues, the theology, and the characters.
-C
Fortunately, we do have writers like Carole who are a genre unto themselves. From what I’ve seen thus far, Carole’s writing won’t be confused with anything else that others are doing (and that’s great for writers who write from a Christian worldview, whether that falls all the way to CBA or not).
Or, to put it another way, a virtuoso is their own reward.
Stephen King? He writer Christian books?
Ever read The Stand?
Seems his latest stuff is predictable and obese, but The Stand, Green Mile, and Shawshank Redemption completely changed my view of Stephen King.
Would to God I could touch on those themes with the same skill and insight.
As a person who spends about 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week with his fingers on a keyboard I have to admit I am growing a little more than weary of the endless discussions about how crappy CBA fiction as compared to general market. So just a couple or so thoughts from me.
1) I’ve been reviewing for Fiction Addict for several years now and have bowed out of reading any more unknown “ABA” fiction. No time to slog through any more Dan Brown copy cats who write even worse than Dan Brown. The quality all has to do with percentages. 90% of general market fiction is just as derivative, copy-cat, and look-at me as anything in the CBA. But the 10% that’s great is a much large pool than the 10% of CBA that is great.
2) My question continues to be a simple one – If the general market is where a writer can best tell his or her story then why not get an agent who can sell it there.
3) We, as writers, are making a huge mistake believing that the average reader approaches fiction the way we do. Readers (with no aspiration of writing) just know the kind of story they like. Period. Most readers don’t like to move out of their comfort zone. Read Koontz: reviewers who liked his older novels but are put out with his newer ones are ruthless.
4) I support CBA writers for one reason. There is no doubt many of their stories would never get published by general market publishers.
5) Lest anyone think I am a CBA shill. Dean Koontz is, hands down, my favorite writer and yes I have read What the Night Knows. I often compare his prose and magical realism to Athol Dickson. Now my question to those who feel they are fair and impartial. How many others here have read Dickson as well as Koontz?
2) that’s always been my plan. I would rather stay unpublished than be bound by the strictures of a CBA house.
3) I don’t like the kinds of stories that get told in the CBA. One of the CBA novels I was cajoled into reading last year under the guise of “its different, better” was a depressing thing about abused and kidnapped and murdered children, cruel pastors, battered wives…if it isn’t escapist it’s ruthlessly maudlin.
4) post hoc ergo propter hoc
5) never said I was fair or impartial. I’m biased toward what I like, based on experience. I’ve never until this moment heard of Athol Dickson. I hope his or her parent didn’t have an unfortunate lisp.
2) Again the prevailing myth in many of these discussions is that CBA houses invented strictures and general market houses will let you write like a bird set free. Every house has strictures.
3) Sorry but that’s like saying, I was cajoled into reading a general market novel and I’ll never read another one because it was such horrid writing.
4) I wasn’t referring to causality or correlation but rather actuality. The statement was “a posteriori”.
5) Now that’s too bad. Publisher’s Weekly wrote this about Dickson’ s, River Rising – “Atmospheric, well-paced and powerfully imagined, this novel is reminiscent of Octavia Butler’s Kindred and deserves similar readership and respect.” Athol definitely does not have a lisp and can write circles around all but a few I’ve read in my lifetime. In fact I’m so sure of this I will gladly send you a new copy for free on my dime if you will read it.
Added to my Wish List.
You don’t have to put it on a list. Email me your mailing address and I’ll send it to you. tegeorge@att.net
Thanks for the gesture, however, with all due respect, if it’s worth reading, it’s worth me buying it. I tend to value books I purchase myself more than those I receive from other outlets, not sure why. I freely admit that I’m a little weird, however. 😉
(As a practical consideration, I haven’t yet decided if I’d rather have it as a dead tree book or in a Kindle version. I’m reading more and more ebooks and am nearly ready to buy a Kindle. I already read a variety of Kindle books on a couple of different smaller handheld devices.)
I just bought one of his on the Kindle. Something about a woman called Vera retrieving her brother’s corpse up in Maine. I’ll read it after I finish the thing I’m reading now and the book I agreed to read for review for a spec fic author, so prolly by Sunday.
Also, I was wrong. When I went to his author page on Amazon I see that he’s the author of Gospel According To Moses, which I read when it was first released.
Fair enough. Winter Haven isn’t my first pick for Dickson’s best but it’s still representative. The Gospel According to Moses isn’t fiction but still a pretty interesting read. Dickson with a conservative Jewish synagogue for months without revealing he was a Christian. His goal was to understand what that group really thought about Christians. Quite revealing.
I agree about Winter Haven. It’s not at the top of any list I’d make. Lost Mission is, but I understand that one is not to everybody’s liking.
Becky
2) but all the CBA houses have a few main strictures I can’t work with, whereas there’re at least four ABA houses where my work would fit unaltered. It goes back to the big school/small school analogy. I want the option of going to the school where you don’t have to take Bible class and they actually offer French, Woodshop and Trigonometry.
3) I was giving one example. I’m not going to sit here and trot out fifty exhibits in an effort to have a pile of evidence large enough to suit a random judge and jury. I don’t like the products I’ve eaten at these restaurants. No, vie never tried the whole menu. But I’ve had a large enough variety of different courses to make a well-formed decision. Although I still contend that a rotten meal is good enough reason to eat elsewhere.
4) I’m not…oh never mind. I brought it up. I’ll defend it.
You support CBA Writers. They are CBA writers because they will not get published elsewhere. (post hoc) They will not get published elsewhere because they write to the framework suited to the CBA. (ergo propter hoc). I’m not referring to causational fallacy but analytical style. Post hoc analysis goes hand in hand with a posteriori rationale, while making larger inductions about the system under analysis.
5) see above. And I won’t explain my dark joke as a joke explained is a joke failed. Either way it’s lost.
(I laughed. It was funny. I hadn’t thought of the name in that way until I read your joke. I LOLed.)
Winter haven was ome of two choices on the Kindle and I can no longer read printandbound books comfortably due to my disability. There were others that looked good but were PAB only.
Joke wasn’t lost. I just got caught up in my response rather than appreciating the moment 🙂
Understood about print. If all publishers would give me eBook ARCs rather than print, it is all I would read. Though I do march to the beat of a different drummer. NOOK color for me and loving every minute of it.
I’ve thought long and hard about what I want in a digital reader. As much as I like the technology of the NOOK color, I’m not interested in a backlit device because I want to read in two main places: outside in direct sun (mosquitos permitting) and in bed. I’m looking for something light enough to hold in one hand, and I want something that /won’t/ change orientation if I lay sideways.
The NOOK color, like iPads, strikes me as superior technology that I have no practical use for. 😉
Athol Dickson is a very good writer.
“unfortunate lisp”
I almost squirted coffee out my nose.
Tim, I hope you don’t count this post as part of the “endless discussion about how crappy CBA fiction” is. This post is about a seemingly sizeable demographic of Christian readers who don’t like what Christian fiction is or has become. The argument about substandard quality has really come up in the comments. I can’t personally argue that as I’ve read equal amounts of bad stuff on each side. Nevertheless, despite your tiring of these arguments, I trust you’ll allow that many Christian readers do struggle with them. Whether or not you think they have a basis in fact. Thus, the “new demographic.”
I understand what you are trying to do, Mike, and respect it. The problem I see in this discussion is that I would wager almost all that are commenting here are writers. We look at the world and books differently that average readers. That’s why we’re writers.
Does it matter whether we aren’t reading Christian fiction because we’re readers or because we’re writers?
My point is that readers (who aren’t also writers) don’t have the same internal warning system that we do. Most are simply looking for something they like to read. Example: A friend at church who is a major league crime novel reader asked if I could recommend something. I gave him Steven James, Pawn. He has read every on the series since and is bugging me to death to know when Queen comes out. Never told him it was CBA fiction and he would probably think that was some new basketball league anyway.
BTW: I read my NOOK Color in bed every night and I never lay on my back. Books don’t reorient like a web page. Since I seldom read in direct sunlight, the first is no problem. Since I do often read in low-light situtations the NOOK was a perfect choice.
With due respect, Tim, I think I’m going to have to disagree with you. On the one hand, I think you are right: to an extent, readers don’t have the same internal alarms that we writers have. I cringe whenever I come across a grammatical error or something I think is off proportionally.
On the other hand, I know that it was my love of reading that made me want to write to begin with. And for 5+ years of my life, I read exclusively CBA fiction–right up until I read one CBA book that worked admirably well in the suspense category–right up to the proselytizing scene that just didn’t fit. I had to take a break from CBA for a while . . . and aside from Mike’s book, I haven’t been back to it since. The avid reader in me craves stories that are well written, well told, and don’t have forced Christian scenes the CBA market desires them.
Also, my mom is an avid reader who doesn’t write at all; for whatever reason, she’s never had the writing bug. She reads primarily mainstream fiction. I introduced her to some big name CBA authors; she said they weren’t bad and handled the religious component very well (she’s a nonbeliever, by the way; so for her to tell me they handled the religious component well tells me a lot), but they still weren’t as good as the mainstream stuff. I also introduced her to Dickson (of whom I am a huge fan). She thought he wrote an extremely good read.
This leaves me thinking that it has little to do with whether we’re writers . . . and more to do with the fact that we’re Christ-following readers who think that much of Christian fiction doesn’t stack up craft-wise to the mainstream fiction.
Nathan, I have no way of knowing how long ago you stopped reading Christian fiction, but I suspect things have changed since then. I don’t read anywhere as much as Tim does, and I’m probably a lot more selective than he is in the books I do read, but until this week it had been a long time since I read a genuine conversion scene.
If you think it is “required,” that’s just not so. Yes, there is a character arc just like all good fiction, and yes, Christian fiction deals with spiritual issues, but does that mean “somebody needs to get saved”? Not in the books I’m reading.
I invite you to take a look at the excerpts I posted at my blog today. You might be surprised.
Becky
Hi Nathan, I’ve been for years now trying to rack my little gray matter as to what it is that doesn’t add up. You said your mamma said: but they still weren’t as good as the mainstream stuff. Can you pinpoint what wasn’t as good? I’m not trying to attack, just trying to figure out what we need to do. Now I read and LOVE christian fantasy. It rocks!!!! So much different than the literary stuff. But again, I don’t know what we’re doing right and wrong. I just can’t put my finger on it. Now Brandon Sanderson, he rocks!! He’s kinda, sorta a Christian writer. Sort of. I’ve learned A LOT from him, especially about building my novel’s world. (But his books are like a 1000 pages long. ARG!! Like eating too big of a meal.) Are we not putting enough effort into it? Or is it we’re not using our author’s voice? Technique? Characters? What? Thanks!!
Now that’s a good question. I want to read things that challenge me as a writer, not simply amuse and entertain.
Beg to differ. I was a reader a long time before I was a writer, and I tired of CBA fiction a long time before my writing became a reality. And I’m also going to throw this out there: if you’re not a reader, you shouldn’t be a writer (IMHO), so I don’t see how you can separate the two like that.
Of course I’m a reader Kevin. Lately I’ ve been on a Koontz binge with 6 finished on my NOOK Color and 2 in the hopper. And in the past two years I’ve read and reviewed nearly 150 faith based novels, many CBA and quite a few not. Reviewed more than my share of general market as well. I’m not Eric Wilson, but I read a lot.
I can’t separate it for me but I can separate from we as writer/readers and those who have no care to analyze writing but rather just like to read.
I would have to disagree, Tim. I’m not a writer, never tried to be, and as a reader and book blogger/reviewer I can say that non-writers like myself care a great deal to analyze writing. I routinely evaluate the literary merit, plot strength, etc. of fiction, Christian or otherwise, and sometimes give books a lower grade because of a lack in any of these areas, even if I thoroughly lost myself in the book. I look at a number of different factors besides pure enjoyment when reviewing and recommending books.
Yes, there are many readers who simply like to be entertained, but there are also a lot of us out there who like to read, analyze, and critically evaluate what we read.
Just wanted to add that I’ve been reading since I was 3, but only seriously considering myself a writer for about 6 years or so. That means I spent 31 years as a reader-only.* Didn’t like Christian fiction much then, either.**
—-
* Look! I can write story problems at least.
** except for a few years when I was about 10 and read a bunch of Grace Livingston Hills.
Congrats on your blog stats!
Interesting discussion. I’m learning.
Yay, Tim!
65 comments? yikes. I’ll be here all night.
Recently I read River Jordan’s Saints in Limbo, and it’s perfect. I drove to another state a few days ago to meet her at one of her book signings. I want more fiction like this, written by Christians and written beautifully. I want believable, flawed characters who grow. I’m going to read this author’s other titles, but I’d like to find more authors who write about Christians, sinners, and saints in a captivating way.
Wow this subject is near and dear to my heart. I write Christian fiction about real people who curse, have premarital sex, use drugs, etc. Of course it’s not shown in a glamorous light and the characters who do these things are usually the ones trying to find a better way. They often end up seeing “the Light,” but that doesn’t make them perfect or even less likely to cuss.
However, even though I write it doesn’t guarantee it’ll show up on the printed page. Publishers are (in my opinion) overly cautious and want to keep their readers in a bubble. So, some writers feel that to write “real” they will have to self-publish. It seems like a no-win situation. The stigma of SP is that the writing isn’t as good, and unfortunately, from my own experience, most if it isn’t. A traditional publisher can lend credibility, but what good is it if it’s not the story the writer wants told?
I don’t think publishers give readers enough credit. If I can read a work of fiction and not be traumatized when a group of women and children is torn apart by a pack of saber tooth tigers, is it reasonable for me to believe that I’ll be so offensed because a character thinks of his father as a rotten bastard? If the writing is good, readers will come. Give us a chance!
Sorry if I offended anyone =-)
This is an interesting topic, and I thank literary agent Rachelle Gardner for retweeting your blog. ?
I’m a Christian and find myself drawn to books that reflect my world view – not necessarily my faith. Namely because Christians are still a diverse lot, and depending on which faith one was brought up in, there can be strong variances in how and what we believe and how we choose to lead our lives.
I’m not turned off by the graphic nature of erotic books – what I am turned off by, however, is the context in said erotic happenings occur (outside of love and commitment). Reading some of these books makes me feel empty, and I find myself skimming. It’s meaningless text. Porn. Very few writers can capture the emotional and spiritual weightiness that comes part and parcel with physical intimacy. Desire is a part of human nature, and even as a Christian, I embrace that aspect of myself and others. I don’t find it unnatural, nor do I find it “sinful.” I do, however, find it unnatural when its presented with a sense of detachment for the sole purpose of titillating the reader.
FRancine Rivers can write a wonderful sex scene and make it amazing and loving without the porn.
I’d agree with #3 – and Katharine’s #4. Quality of writing is critical
Wow! The comments I have read are very interesting.
I’m must admit I haven’t read much CBA Fiction. My reading consists of Dean Koontz (Cold Fire, Hideaway and Strangers are my favorites), John Grisham’s Testament (was excellent), Greg Bear(Queen of Angels was my favorite) and Mark Helprin. (Winter’s Tale and A Solider of the Great War are incredible)
However, I recently read Polivka’s Trophy Chase Trilogy and Blaggard’s Moon and I thought they were really well done. I wrote reviews on the series and Blaggard’s Moon on my blog. kammbia1.wordpress.com
I will recommended those books to anyone (CBA or non-CBA) because it was good storytelling with interesting characters and the religious aspects were integral to the story but didn’t get in the way or dominate it.
I’m currently reading Mike’s book and I will write a review on my blog once I’m finished.
I recently bought Jeffrey Overstreet’s Auralia ‘s Colors, Karen Hancock’s Arena, Lisa Mckay’s My Hands Came Away Red because I was encouraged from reading Polivka’s books.
I hope these novels are just as good as Polivka’s books and if so I will continue seek out more CBA Fiction that is well-written, tells a good story, has successfully intertwine the religious aspects into the plot or storyline without preaching at the reader.
And I believe if readers continue to promote good books like Polivka’s series and spend their money on them….then we can get better quality in CBA Fiction.
I know it will not happen overnight and I understand the CBA market is gear toward a certain audience. But nothing will ever change until people continue to let others know there is good work out there and show it with our dollars as well.
Marion
Yea, Marion. This is exactly the right approach, I think. We need people we trust who will steer us to the good books, and those we need to buy.
Publishers, I’ve been told from a variety of sources, respond to readers’ buying habits. Hence we have to talk up the good books, really talk them up in a way that separates us from the auto five-star reviewers.
And we have to squash the notion that ALL Christian fiction is too bland, preachy, predictable, sanitized, poorly written, or whatever else people repeat without having read widely enough to know what they’re talking about. Categorical generalizations about most anything dangerously tread the waters of inaccuracy.
Becky
Thank you for this thread. Seriously.
I appreciate Mike’s courage in hosting it, and all of you for contributing.
– Patrick
I am a voracious reader. Always have been, always will be. I was reading at a Grade 12 level in Grade 5, and quickly outstripped all of the books available in the classrooms at my Christian school. Some women in my church began feeding me Christian fiction, specifically the general romance kind that has been so thoroughly discussed in this thread. Not knowing any different, I tore through these. As a result, at one point or another I have read every major Christian romance author. Finally at some point in high school I made the transition. I don’t remember when or how, I just began to read outside of the ‘Christian fiction’ label, and like so many others, I haven’t looked back .
What I struggle with in this area of publishing is the lack of innovation, good writing and even depth in some Christian fiction stories. I am far more interested in reading something new, something innovative, something deep, just something original. I have gotten many recommendations from this thread, which I so appreciate.
As an individual who is looking to move into the publishing world and publish specifically for the ‘Christians who don’t like Christian fiction’ , I find this discussion intensely interesting and deeply important. I know countless women who are reading Christian fiction, not necessarily because it is good, but because it is the only thing they know. These are intelligent women, and I don’t think Christian fiction publishers should underestimate their audience as they have done and are doing. Sure, there will always be a market for escapist romance, but I think with a little bit of creativity, the Christian market could be revitalized, and the Christian reader with intelligence will finally have a faith-based outlet.
(I’m another gal who started out as a CBA reader but discovered secular titles that were more enjoyable and have trouble going back.)
I’m with others who read a ton. Most of that is secular, granted, but every so often I’ll go on a CBA binge. Maybe it’s just the type of books I like to read, but it takes a lot more work for me to find a CBA book that I can sit back and enjoy than it does a ABA book.
It saddens me. I want to enjoy CBA and to support my siblings in Christ monetarily. But I can’t. I frequently end up discouraging my friends from reading particular Christian authors with detailed critiques for why, because I know they’ll share my opinion. I don’t even like being a difficult customer.
I’ve found a few authors that overall do decent jobs. But when I read CBA, I don’t just want to read the “same ol'” authors, nor the “same ol'” type of story. (Amish romances, I’m looking at you, here. They were interesting years back when I didn’t know anything about the Amish. Now, I just sigh to see ’em.) I like discovering new authors.
I don’t write to please the CBA or ABA mould. My goal is to write stories with a realistic character base, usually on a level that’s appropriate for preteens, even when some parents might not want their child exposed to some of the background events. I even post content advisories on my site.
Hey, I’m a huge spec fic fan. I’m not a fan of the blaspheming that tends to be in it. (One prominent urban fantasy ABA author never blasphemes and skillfully manages to even make her foul-mouthed characters swear very rarely on the page while leaving the reader well aware of what he usually says, which makes me an incredibly pleased fan.)
There are a lot of Christian author recommendations in this thread that I’ll have to check out. Maybe I’ll find some siblings in Christ to support.
Note: Generally, the issues I have with a CBA novel just make me avoid the author in the future and wish the writer would find a (better?) critique group. There is 1 ABA author right now who I’m tempted to write a frustrated e-mail about the utter offensive idiocy of the narrator of one of her book series. So yes, I’m an equal-opportunity critic.
Sounds like you’re reading my mail.
I’ve been trying to introduce science fiction to Christians, and a Christian worldview to science fiction. This is, as you may guess, a mostly thankless undertaking. 😉
So have I. Which is why I applaud good Sci-fi with a Christian worldview. Stuart Stockton, Kerry Nietz and a number of others are doing a great job over at Marcher Lord Press. And just so no one around here things I’m a CBA shill, I thought Robin Parish’s Offworld was horrible. My FictionAddict colleague, Josh Olds gave it 5 stars. Go figure 😀
Same here. Except I haven’t read any of the MLP offerings. Are they worth looking into?
Patrick, Stuart’s book is one of the most original I’ve read, but I’m not typically a sci fi reader, so I’m not the best judge.
His characters aren’t human. They are dinosaurs. But he makes them come to life so beautifully and navigates the issues you’d think would cause the concept to fall apart (varying sizes, for example), and builds such a rich world. It was a thoroughly engaging read, but one for speculative readers. I don’t know that the general populace will embrace the story because of the concept, though I think they’d find it an enjoyable story if they gave it a chance.
I haven’t read Kerry’s books yet. I was hoping to win a copy in a recent contest.
Becky
Some powerful titles at MLP.
Which, by the way, aren’t CBA.
That’s pretty much why I contrasted two MLP titles to a CBA title like Offworld.
Jef Gerke, however, doesn’t grind axes against the CBA. He worked for Tyndale for years and understands the problem with many niche genres. My agent and he often work together in referring author’s work that would fit at MLP better than a CBA house.
Check out a new indie author that is taking christian fiction to a new place. Sojourning with Angels: The Rise of Zazriel. A story of lust, greed, guardian angels, watcher angels, an ancient succubus, a whiskey priest and a wonderful love story between a husband and wife. See the book trailer at http://rleoolson.com/wordpress/
I’ve read through most of these comments and I’m seeing the same thing: poorly crafted christian books. Well I had a conversation with a couple of dear friends today after church and we talked about this very thing. Poorly written christian novels. And one of my friend said christian authors don’t know how to write the dark side of humanity. We don’ t understand the human mind when it comes to tragedy, rape, crime. We shuffle away from the frightening black unknown. Yet my favey book is The Book of Ruth by Jane Hamilton in which I see the horrors of Ruth’s life as her abusive mother raises her. Christian writers steer clear of such horrors. Yet we live with horrors everyday. When I read christian fantasy, it sickens me when the heroine ALWAYS comes from a happy little home where everyone dances everyday and drops lollips on everyone. Really??? How about the herione who’s dad cheats on mom all the time or worries about daddy wanting to ‘be her friend for the evening’. Look at Joyce Meyer’s life. no lollips and roses for her childhood.
Instead, some christian writers bring in the abused character, but then never follow through with the after affects. The mental anguish. The healing that come from God. How disrespectful it is to the victims when writers avoid the mental anguish of broken people. A 12 year old kid in my church who lives in the bad neighborhood hates any kind of authority. A drug dealer killed his dad in a drug deal gone wrong. His mother has no idea where he’s at and doesn’t care. Is it any wonder he’s messed up? He has so many mental problems now. Imagine a character like that, instead of the whinning hero who thinks he’s not ‘good enough’, or the heroine who gulps down her fear and does it anyway. What about the hero who says, bite me, I’m not helping them!! Commit to the mental anguish, don’t dance around it and hope it goes away.
I would love to talk to everyone here about a personal tragedy and how God saw them through it. Now there’s a story. So instead some christian writers dance around the happy pole while the world suffers. Is it any reason why no one takes us seriously?? I think it’s not the craft, but it’s the longing to avoid the ‘dark side’ of humanity. God takes the broken and bruised sheep, cleans them up and then uses them to change the world. Which some christian writers ignore.
ok, I’m done now. :))
I’m trying to recall one Christian heroine who comes from a happy home. Can you share the titles of the books you’re speaking about?
And what is heroic about a boy who says, “Bite me. I’m not helping them.” In what ways would such a character qualify as a hero?
Yes!!!
I read mostly Christian Fantasy and a lot of the heros/heriones come from happy homes. The Sword in the Stars is one of them. The heroine has happy memories of her uncle’s home and her father’s home. I’m glad the hero at least has some hard times behind him and has a some horrible struggles. But even those are sugar coated. 🙁
And what I mean about the hero is I’m so tired of heros who don’t think they can do it and they whine about how they can’t defeat the bad guys and save everyone b/c I’m so stupid and I’m not qualified b/c I come from the wrong side of the tracks. Oh get over yourself!! I’d love to see a hero who says, bite me!! Then circumstances force him to be a hero. I’ve seen that in secular fantasy, but rarely in christian fantasy. It’s so blasted sugar coated!!
Umm, yeah, that’s right. Much Christian fiction depends upon one of two things for its readership:
1. Naiviete of the reader in not recognizing BAD fiction since so much of what they read IS bad.
2. Sympathy readership because ‘we have to support our own’.
I’ve been guilty of the last. Some Christian author visited a church I went to, and just becasue he had sold so FEW books, I bought two. Hopefully it helped them to get the gas money they needed to get to their next book sales, but still, that is intellectually dishonest, and should not have happened. Really, we should exercise our discretionary spending and weed out the weak writers. Maybe eventually people will start writing GOOD Christian fiction.
IMO, it’s not so much weeding out the bad writers, but teaching them to write well. As long as someone can sit and write, then they can learn to write well. IMO, I feel that if I write well, then I have a responsibility to teach others to write well. Shrugs. And those who write poorly need to recongize the fact that they need help. :)) And how nice of you, wordsmith, to support that writer. :)))
I love good Christian fiction, and I stress GOOD. For example, I truly enjoy the Patrick Bower dective series. I have read reviews from other Christians and they do not like it because it is to violent or edgy. I get that but come on, the last thing I want to read on my limited down time is another praire era family struggling to make ends meet while the matriach strives to bring the family back to their Christian roots. It seems to me that the majority of Christian is for the female audience or the juvenile audience. I am a Sci Fi/Fantasy nerd, I enjoy the genres. When I read for entertainment, that is what I read. Christian fiction is sorely lacking in this area. What I really want is an action packed book in this genre with no sex, clean langauge and a good story. I do not care about character development and I do not care about romantic drama. As a result, I spend the majority of my time reading in the secular venue. I have tried Peretti and others like him, they are a little more on the horror side of the line than I enjoy. Just my two cents.
Thank you for bringing this trend to light. I agree! So much of Christian fiction seems like oatmeal, filling but oh, so bland. I long for stories about Christians or people struggling with their faith that come from real world experiences instead of sanitized versions of real life experiences.
Count me in as exactly one of those people. To someone who grew up reading classics like Jane Austen and J.R.R. Tolkien, the Bible-bookstore-romance-variety appeared banal, fluffy, sentimental, weak on theology and lacking in intellect. And then you have the Randy Alcorn types, who basically use fiction as a conservative Christian politics pamphlet. Not that I’m not conservative or Christian, but types like him wouldn’t know art if oil paint was wafting under their nose.
I kept going back to the classics, and then I realized that a lot of them were actually Christian. So I decided to blog about it, and introduce some intelligent Christian novels (including romance) that they read in the universities but you will never find on your Bible bookstore shelf. http://www.christianvictorianliterature.com
I am Christian and I love to read, but the sad reality is that I mostly read secular fiction because I don’t either identify with the characters in Christian fiction or the writing is way too simplistic for my tastes or I am just not that into plot lines that seem to be same from whatever book has been written just previously and they seem to be written for a demographic that only wants Christian fiction that follows a certain formula. It would be nice for Christian publishers to realize that maybe they need to publish something by a Christian author that doesn’t follow the old tried and true formula and that there are those of us who want something is more like the secular fiction books that I read on a regular basis.
Buffoonery in Christian fiction has existed since it’s inception. John Milton being one controversial figure in its history. His work “On Christian Doctrine” was banned by the Catholic church for heterodoxy (fancy word for heresy) because he allegedly taught Arianism, an anti-trinity doctrine that argues the three members of the trinity are not equal and supposedly this explains the unbalanced view of God and Satan in Paradise Lost, although there have been tons of debates on the subject. Protestants argued about it as much as the Catholics, and Paradise Lost even gets a nod often from Jehovah’s Witnesses who like it because they interpret it as undermining the orthodox claims of Christ’s role in the trinity.
Heresy has also existed since the days of the Apostle Paul. The idea that older writers were less capable of it because of the fact that they read more often doesn’t mean they were always more accurate. There were numerous heretics even in the Victorian period. Whenever a Christian tries to envision spiritual mysteries of God, he or she is going to get some things wrong because he is not a prophet. I’m referring to many things that I believe were purposely kept vague in the Bible so we wouldn’t have to explain them in theoretical terms. Stuff that could only otherwise be assumed and diluted by humanistic philosophy, like in some traditions. But there can still be truth in them as long as one acknowledges the liberties taken.
There is even some controversy most notably with Christian advocates of Harry Potter. Regardless of how it can be interpreted, J.K. Rowling has some serious problems in not really being clear about what she means with Dumbledore’s supposed homosexuality. Allegedly he left a relationship because it made him miserable, but she doesn’t say whether it was a man or woman, and more importantly, is she promoting the idea that gays should be celibate or is she saying that they would be happier if they were with a same-sex partner because heterosexuality would make them miserable? Being so coy on a subject wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t for the fact that Christians are asked to take a stand on these and not be wimps. Either she doesn’t know, which is more forgivable, or else she is trying to be a people-pleaser. It matters in terms of giving her any respect as a serious witness to Christ. She also seems to allude to inclusivist universalism in how diverse the religions of Hogwart’s class is. Regardless of whether she is against homosexuality, or believes those interpretations are corrupt and those against it are all wrong about it being a sin, either of those is a concern in how we should be speaking out on moral matters if our convictions are really from God. Otherwise, I don’t care for what she says.
Hi, Mike,
Do you know if anybody has done a marketing/demographic study of this? I’m a business professor as well as a science fiction and fantasy writer. I’m writing a case study of Marcher Lord Press partly because it’s something business professors do and partly because I’m struggling with the same questions Jeff Gerke struggled with. It seems like we’re making a lot of assumptions about why people do what they do, but it would be nice to have some research data to guide us. My impression is that Christians who are science fiction, fantasy, and horror fans (and there are a lot of them) usually don’t have a problem reading the secular authors and don’t think they need a Christian alternative. They’re sympathetic to faith messages but view Christian media offerings as lower quality knock-offs–which is sometime the case.
I wrote a a book on amazon that i think is quite entertaining, but it is hard to market as a non traditional christian fantasy. It does not fit the categories, that people think of a christian book. So I could use some marketing advise.